A 2nd opinion? Subscribe   
  From:  Troo (a7p)   10/24/2001 10:50 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 10)  
 
  239.1  
 
I hope all here will be willing to give this fair consideration. 
I saw an article on the internet that I am skeptical of. It claimed that abortion clinics were getting anthrax letters. I would think that anthrax would be hard to get a hold of and have some doubts about the authenticity. But what concerns me the most is that it coud be true. Anyone who could blow up clinics and kill themselves, killing abortion doctors, could do nearly anything. 

Jesus was not a terrorist and did not even resist when they sought to unjustly kill him. And surely he was more innocent than a baby born of Adam. And what, like Rome didn't have plenty of injustice. In fact, even when Israel was full of injustice, it was many years before God took action. I concerns me that some who think themselves Christians might start to think that because others break the rules, that they can, too. With that reasoning, I should be able to commit adultery because so many others are. 

Because others sin does not give me the right to sin. Nor has God given me the duty of policing the world. That was given to the Gentiles/Nations/Caesar. Our only obligation of enforcement in in the congregation of God, His own house, so to speak. it is reserved by God for God that He should be the judge of the world. As I understand it, God is jealous or what He has reserved for Himself and would not be too happy about others throwing Him off His throne and taking matters into their own hands. If Caesar wants to allow abortions, then let him answer to God and not us. We may exercise our political rights and not much more. to bomb or kill in the name of God and against Caesar's law is unChristian as I see it. 

Now my 2nd point. Imagine the horror you or I might experience if God suddenly spoke to us and ordered an abortion of a baby we were expecting or carrying? What would you do? Would you call God wicked? Question Him? Or simply, and without hesitation, obey? 

Well, consider my brothers, what our Lord asked Abraham to do. After having promised great things through his son Isaac, God now tells Abraham to sacrifice (Kill if you will) Isaac. What? So did Abraham stop and say wait a minute! You told me some years before that Isaac was to do this and that. Now you have gone back on your promise. What is the meaning of this? Well, Abraham could have. It would be hard to find fault with him if he did. And yet, amazingly, Abraham did not flinch or hesitate to obey his God. Yes, he had so much trust and faith in his God that he never even thought it possible that God could go back on His promise to Abraham. Paul informs us that Abraham imagined that God could and would raise Isaac from the dead. He could never imagine bad things from God. What a remarkable testament of faith, would you not agree with me? Is not Abraham noted for his faith? I am sure we are in agreement on this. 

So when God asked for sacrifice, Abraham did not even think of calling it murder or betrayal. Abraham let God define all things, did he not? If God said to do it then it was not murder. It is murder when man does it without authorization from God or God's law. In the case of God's law, God defines what is worthy of death and what is not. And God prescribes the death penalty where He decides it is merited. When God prescribes that execuation be carried out, is it murder? Never may that be the case. When God authorizes it, then it is not murder. God has the right to take life or give it, and He has the right to order someone else to do it or not, as Abraham clearly demonstrated in his willingness to obey such an order. 

So then, am I not right in saying that only God can define murder, only God can prescribe execution. When done without the authorization of God's law or God, then it becomes murder. I certainly hope I could find agreement here. 

Now that brings me to my third and final point. Courage is an important Christian quality is it not? revelation 22 says that cowards have no place in God's Kingdom. Moral cowardice is disgusting. Moral courage is an absolute necessity since Christians, sooner or later will be tested and need that courage to resist Satan. I don't expect any disagreement at this point, either. 

Now the 4th and final point. If I could show from God's law that abortion, or at least the accidental destruction of the fetus was not murder, would you have the moral courage to consider such a proposition? Would you be willing to give it an ear? Abortion is usually spoken of as murder and if God's law forbids it, that would be correct. But if it does not forbid it, and defines life another way, would you still call it murder. Yes, a baby is a beautiful and precious thing. Being small, weak, delicate, vulnerable, at our mercy, it brings out the most tender and protective emotions we are capable of and our first instinct would be to revolt at the thought. But really, wasn't Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac just as revolting? But Abraham was willing to hold his gut emotions back and in check when God was the source. Should we not treat God's law as coming from God and hold our emotions in check and consider very carefully and unemotionally what God's law has to say or not say on the matter of abortion? 

After all, as Jesus put it, when you do it to the least of these, my brothers, you do it to me. do we want to be guilty of unfair or unjustly accusing a brother or sister of a horrific sin when it may not be how God sees it? I would not want that to be the case for me. So I hope you will consider the following article in the spirit with which Abraham received God's law and promises. I pray that you will. I at least hope that you can see that my intentions are sincere and well meaning. I am not a monster. I am a devout worshipper of our Lord Jesus Christ. I hope you will give that consideration. Thank you. 

http://**** 




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Edited 10/24/2001 2:08:03 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/24/2001 11:22 am  
To:  Troo (a7p)   (2 of 10)  
 
  239.2 in reply to 239.1  
 
I totally disagree with you!!

 

You are attempting to pretend that God Approves of abortion and child killing.

 

 In your vast adventure to put a good face on murder you already have twisted scripture, and invented scenarios in order to support your cause and to further your agenda.

 

Much of the information you have presented has already been discussed on this forum yet you chose to start a new link under a deceptive topic heading a second opinion This is just indicative of your movements sneaky underhanded tactics.





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Troo (a7p)   10/24/2001 9:00 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (3 of 10)  
 
  239.3 in reply to 239.2  
 
Well, showing your fruits or true colors on your first try. excellent! I thought this might be tough but you fooled me. YOur accusations are completely wrong. Further, you did not address a single point I raised in that article. to say I am wrong without constructive criticism is like a clashing symbol in the breeze. Jesus did say by their fruits you will know them. 
  
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  From:  Kidspence   10/24/2001 9:53 pm  
To:  Troo (a7p) unread  (4 of 10)  
 
  239.4 in reply to 239.1  
 
Hi there, 
It is funny how some so called christians are more willing to pray for Bin Laden and his salvation on top of supporting murder on the front lines of the US-Afghani War than they are to forgive a woman for aborting a fetus that isn't capable of sustaining it's own life. 

For the masses: I do not advocate abortion in the least. There is NOT a reason for a CHRISTIAN to ever abort a fetus. There isn't any reason for a CHRISTIAN to give up a child for adoption either. But, that is another story. The whole point just goes to prove the hypocrisy of the Christian community as a whole. Not everybody, mind you. But... 

Love, Krissy
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/24/2001 10:19 pm  
To:  Kidspence   (5 of 10)  
 
  239.5 in reply to 239.4  
 
It is more funny how some people are so Arrogant, Naive and Proud that they can promote baby killing and then despise those who do Not go along with their crimes against God and humanity.

 

Please take your Games and your message of death and destruction back to your own forums!

 

David





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum



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Edited 10/25/2001 1:55:35 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Kidspence   10/25/2001 6:01 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (6 of 10)  
 
  239.6 in reply to 239.5  
 
Hi there, 
May I ask what I said that was sooooo horrible that you would tell me: 

<<<"Take your games and your message of death and destruction back to your own forums.">>> 

Funny but, I thought I said I do NOT advocate abortion. I especially do not advocate it as an action suitable for a Christian. However, I do think there are extreme circumstances where one may be necessary. It is in instances such as these I find it difficult to call abortion a sin. I do not think the issue is that black and white. 

Now I am not sure what is so proud, naive or arrogant about such a statement. I certainly can't see how on earth this promotes baby killing and my viewpoint concerning abortion is most definetly NOT a crime against God and humanity. 

It is obvious the 1st paragraph of my post was completely misunderstood. It is even more obvious that you did not read the 2nd paragraph of my post. It not only stated my stance on the issue but, tied in nicely with the 1st pargraph. 

Thank you for your hospitality, I think. 

Kidspence 
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    10/25/2001 7:49 am  
To:  Kidspence   (7 of 10)  
 
  239.7 in reply to 239.6  
 
According to your post you have determined that a Baby in the womb is not capable of sustaining its own life and therefore is not worthy of life, unless of course you judge it to be worthy and grant it life.

 

Babies are not parasites!

 

BTW you cannot sustain your own life any more than a fetus can sustain its life.

 

Acts 17:25 neither is He (God) served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to All life and Breath and all things.

 

It is a marvelous thing that a Baby in the womb lives in water for 9 months then at birth continues to live by breathing air. It is marvelous because Life is a continuing work of God.

 

Abortion is a work of man.

 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Kidspence   10/25/2001 8:57 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (8 of 10)  
 
  239.8 in reply to 239.7  
 
Hey! 
Yo bro!!!!!!!! You are preaching to the choir. Thank you for proving yourself to be a glowing example of the hypocrisy that I spoke of in my post. Me and my 2 wonderful children thank you for showing us that this is not a place to grow in the Lord. It is only a place of totalitarianism :( 

Kidspence (Krissy)...and Kara Lee Ann and Kate Marie... 

PS- I never said a baby was a parasite. Try to take a 7 week old baby from the womb of a mother and watch it die. That is what was meant by sustainment of life. 

I pray the Lord forgives you for treating me as you have. Perhaps, one day your blind eyes and deaf ears will hear!!!!
 
  
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  From:  Hamilton109   10/27/2001 4:27 pm  
To:  Troo (a7p) unread  (9 of 10)  
 
  239.9 in reply to 239.1  
 
Both Surprised and interested in your post. 
I disagree with it, but I would like to visit the website. E-mail it to me. 

Know this friend, I can argue both sides of this issue, and I'm firmly on the Pro-Life side. 

"Now the 4th and final point. If I could show from God's law that abortion, or at least the accidental destruction of the fetus was not murder, would you have the moral courage to consider such a proposition? Would you be willing to give it an ear? Abortion is usually spoken of as murder and if God's law forbids it, that would be correct. But if it does not forbid it, and defines life another way, would you still call it murder?" 

That is a wopper of an "IF" my friend. I know the texts you are probably going to (Ex. 21:22 and various scriptures on "breath"), and I know the arguement that can be made. But to make it short and sweet, they "ain't" valid arguments. 

Bring it on, I'm hungry....
 
  
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   From:  Hamilton109   10/27/2001 4:36 pm  
To:  Kidspence   (10 of 10)  
 
  239.10 in reply to 239.4  
 
I for one, and certainly willing to pray that a woman who evicts and destroys a life that lives within her. All of us are in desperate need of a merciful Savior. 
However, if people rationalize the evil that they do, then repentance cannot come. 

Without genuine repentance for sin in all its ugliness, there can be no forgiveness. With no forgiveness, we stand rightly condemned before a Just and Holy God. 

(May God spare us all from ever being in such a place.)
 
  
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